Replies to this message

: tow winch
: tow winch -- danny young	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: jboggs ® 02/07/2011, 12:25:46 Author Profile eMail author Edit

In other words you want us to design it for you.

Post Reply Tell a Friend (must be logged in) Alert Admin About Post

Where am I? Original Top of thread

| |

: : tow winch
: : tow winch -- jboggs	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: Pinkerton ® 02/07/2011, 15:23:12 Author Profile eMail author Edit

JB, we sometimes do not see exactly eye to eye on stuff, but you nailed it with that comment. I don't mind helping, but doing it all for you? Wow, nice work if you can get it done for you Danny. I suggest you do some design work then ask specific questions here when you get stuck. That we WILL help you with but giving you probably $3,000 of design work just for the asking? Hmmmm, I need to think about that one. OR -- do I? Dave

Post Reply Tell a Friend (must be logged in) Alert Admin About Post

Where am I? Original Top of thread

| |

: : : tow winch
: : : tow winch -- Pinkerton	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: jboggs ® 02/07/2011, 16:22:59 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I don't mind helping either, but frankly this one had that aura of ... hmmm ... maybe ... homework? 3 grand? Maybe on the low end. Afer all, we have no idea what is being lifted, or pulled. Could be an elevator full of children! Danny: Don't let our comments run you off - unless it is homework! We're just asking for you to dive into it a little yourself first and at least try to solve some of those problems.

Post Reply Tell a Friend (must be logged in) Alert Admin About Post

Where am I? Original Top of thread

| |

: : : : tow winch
: : : : tow winch -- jboggs	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: Kelly Bramble ® 02/07/2011, 17:33:59 Author Profile eMail author Edit

3K seems low to me as well, I estimate 100 man-hours with review, sourcing and end-item drawings. So, the going rate for consultants are 3X the typical hourly/salary rate for an experienced design engineer. So, at say $50 standard hourly rate(don't forget benefits, insurance, etc.) ~ 3 x $50= $150/hour x 100 hour = $15,000. How's my hourly rate folks -been out of direct industry for a few years. Modified by Kelly Bramble at Mon, Feb 07, 2011, 17:34:29

Post Reply Tell a Friend (must be logged in) Alert Admin About Post

Where am I? Original Top of thread

| |

: : : : : tow winch
: : : : : tow winch -- Kelly Bramble	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: Pinkerton ® 02/08/2011, 09:48:20 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I was of two minds to post this, but what the hey. Er, 100 hours? Two and a half weeks for a simple winch. Wow, guys, good work if you can get it. I was thinking closer to 30 hours max. I thought we were still in recession where business survival is important. I am retired so the recession has not directly affected me and I don't do "work" any more so hourly rate is not important, but really 100-hours? Hell, the guy could have bought an off the shelf electric powered winch that would do the job for under $3K, including the generator to run it. It would not match the diameter spec, but the FPM and load is a doddle to replicate. If he really wanted it designed to his spec, 30 hours should be tops. One thing he has not mentioned is the length of cable. Since it is labeled as a "tow" it may be for a model glider or something and need half a mile of cable. That might preclude an off the shelf solution, but not change the design time at all. Dave

Post Reply Tell a Friend (must be logged in) Alert Admin About Post

Where am I? Original Top of thread

| |

: tow winch
: : : : : : tow winch -- Pinkerton	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: Kelly Bramble ® 02/08/2011, 17:00:42 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Well, honestly every time I do a time-to-design estimate - I always come up short. So, 100 hours might not be enough. This is what I did - I searched Google and came up with: https://www.warn.com/atv/winches/images/196/66003A2.pdf Looked at the parts list and did an estimate based on part count. There are 68 fundamental parts in that assembly, so... 100 hours / 68 parts = 1.47 hours or 1.47 x 60 min. = 88.20 minutes per part Your estimate is: 30 hours / 68 parts = .44 hours or .44 x 60 min. = 26.4 minutes per part. This is to research, agree on design approach (he, he, he, ha!), 3D model, create drawings, check, check, check, and then analyze, get the customers feedback, change, etc --- you know what I mean. At the last corporate organization I worked at they measured 11 hours per part average just for the designer. Of course you had the responsible engineer, electronics person, program manager, and the rest of the folks waiting on the engineering team to get done. I don't know what you envisioned as an assembly in terms of parts...... Now, I'll bet the last grey hair on my bald head that the end-item customer will request a change and manufacturing will find something missing of the drawing requiring a drawing change as well. So, after more thought on the issue - a proper job might be 160 hours.

Post Reply Tell a Friend (must be logged in) Alert Admin About Post

Where am I? Original Top of thread

| |

: : tow winch
: : tow winch -- Kelly Bramble	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: Pinkerton ® 02/08/2011, 18:00:13 Author Profile eMail author Edit

That's a curious approach. So, if **just part** of my winch items-list has two pillow blocks, four bolts, four washers, four lock washers, four nuts, two chain sprockets and a chain I am already up for 88.2 (minutes each) x 21 (partial part count) I am at 30.87-hours. No wonder corporate organizations are finding it tough to compete with offshore manufacturers. Dave

Post Reply Tell a Friend (must be logged in) Alert Admin About Post

Where am I? Original Top of thread

|   |

: : : : tow winch
: : : : tow winch -- jboggs	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: Pinkerton ® 02/07/2011, 16:45:51 Author Profile eMail author Edit

JB, this one did not jump out at me as homework, but I have been wrong before. It is a simple enough thing to design the basic system, but when he asked for specifics on motors, pumps etc, it sounded like a real world thing he wanted to build. I don't need to know what it is lifting as it is just a winch. If he stated it was to lift a human load my reply would have had an additional "get and expert," comment. I will give him this much free help though, for "free-wheeling," no pump is required. LOL Dave

Post Reply Tell a Friend (must be logged in) Alert Admin About Post

Where am I? Original Top of thread

| |

: : : : : tow winch
: : : : : tow winch -- Pinkerton	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: RWOLFEJR ® 02/08/2011, 09:31:01 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Hi Danny, Seems you have a good bit of the information you need... Might want to look at your speed of your load some... You realize it will change depending on how many wraps of your cable you have on the spool. Also seemed mighty quick to me for moving a load but guess that depends on what you're up to...? Anywho... This doesn't really have to be much more expensive than the components themselves. You need to buy this pump and motor etc. right? All you need to do is call your local hydraulic shop and ask them to quote you a system that will do this. Tell them what you need to accomplish and they'll gladly size the parts to suit to make a sale. Won't cost you much more than you'd pay for the parts... they make a few bucks... and you get your gadget done. Good luck, Bob

Post Reply Tell a Friend (must be logged in) Alert Admin About Post

Where am I? Original Top of thread

|   |